The paperwork never ends The Archives
Loved Ones - December, 2002 Archive Index

Carole K 12-2     had great Thanksgiving with mom
Jessica Rowland 12-5     did she cause her mom's CHF?
Andrea 12-5     excellent biventricular pacemaker experience
Leigh 12-5     Bill's EF improved!
Scott Brown's 12-6 reply to Jessica R's 12-5     possibilities, maybe a book?
Kevin K 12-6     how long to get relief?
Jon's 12-6 reply to Kevin K's 12-6     the usual initial experience
Myrtle C's 12-9 reply to Jessica's 12-5     time to grieve and more
Kelly S' 12-9 reply to Jon's 12-6     pillow info helped
Kelly S' 12-9 reply to Jessica's 12-5     book suggestion
Jacqueline Z 12-9     how do I get drug off market?
Jon's 12-9 reply to Jacqueline Z's 12-9     please think again
Laura 12-9     questions
Jon's 12-9 reply to Laura's 12-9     suggestions
Jon 12-10     Medicare now covers TMLR for some angina
Kelly S' 12-10 reply to Jacqueline Z's 12-9     I agree
Myrtle C's 12-11 reply to Jacqueline Z's 12-9     I agree
Jon's 12-11 reply to Myrtle C's 12-11     another perspective
Carole K 12-11     end of life care - seek advice
Jon 12-13     I bark but I don't bite!
Lorraine 12-14     depression & meds question
Jon's 12-14 reply to Lorraine's 12-14     depression and meds
Donna's 12-14 reply to Jon's 12-13     ischemia questions, update & more
Jon's 12-14 reply to Donna's 12-14     ischemic areas
Lorraine's 12-14 reply to Jon's 12-14     further information
Jon's 12-14 reply to Lorraine's 12-14     online communication is tough
Lorraine's 12-16 reply to Jon's 12-14     happy holidays!
Scott Brown 12-17     my dad died
Marion 12-17     need to know what happens in end-stage CHF
Mike W's 12-18 reply to Scott Brown's 12-17     condolences and more
Joyce's 12-18 reply to Marion's 12-17     hospice is a possibility
Jon 12-18     my vacation starts tomorrow
Deb F 12-27     seek end-of-life experiences
Liz D 12-27     seek Disability lawyer in Phoenix area
Susan B's 12-28 reply to Liz D's 12-27     finding a disability lawyer
Lois B's 12-29 reply to Deb F's 12-27     end-stage uncertainty
Carole K's 12-31 reply to Lois B's 12-29     nursing home question

Carole K, December 2, 2002 - Hello to everyone, I just thought I would post that I had a wonderful Thanksgiving with my mother. I brought her home Wednesday night and took her back to the nursing home on Friday afternoon. There were 3 of her grandchildren and 2 of her great-grandchildren at my house for Thanksgiving dinner. Mother ate more than I had seen her eat in weeks. She was however, very weak and couldn't sit up for long at the time. She has developed a terrible cough. I called Hospice and got cough meds, which I gave around the clock.
     The great-grand babies were happy to just play around her and that made her she smile a lot. Then on Sunday we had her 89th birthday party at the nursing home with 5 out of 6 grand sons and all 4 of her great grands and several friends from church. She really had a grand time. It was very hard on me physically to get all that together, watch after her for 2 days, cook Thanksgiving dinner for 12, work, and plan the party but I wouldn't trade one minute of sleep I didn't get. God blessed me with the gift of time with my mother. Carole K.

Jessica Rowland, December 5, 2002 - Hi, This is my first time posting a question. I have asked a few people for help and it must be the wrong time of the year. My story is that I have been in a relationship for over 19 months. This person has changed my life but when I first met her, I knew her mother had CHF and that she had to give 100% to her mother's sickness. She is only 18 and been taking care of her mother since she could see over the counter. Her mother has had CHF for almost 10 years but at one time it went completely away or so her doctor says, but it came back with a vengeance.
     She died September 2, 2002. I can remember the first week we started dating. She blamed herself for her mother's CHF. She believes that if she was never born, her mother's illness would have never occurred. This Christmas we can't afford many gifts but I'd like to find something to show her that CHF is either not relevant or she couldn't be the cause. Please help.

Andrea, December 5, 2002 - Hello everyone, Since I have gotten much info and support from this site, I thought I'd share this. My husband has CHF and has been very ill, to the point that he couldn't walk more than 30 feet without stopping to catch his breath. He just got a biventricular pacemaker/defibrillator last Tuesday. The improvement was immediate and dramatic. We're trying not to push it but he has been able to walk at least 200 feet so far without problems. Also, he suffered from unbearable insomnia prior to surgery and that is greatly relieved. Ask your doctor about this. It is like a miracle for him. Be well! Andrea.

Leigh, December 5, 2002 - Hi, We went to the new CHF specialist yesterday after she ran a new battery of tests on Bill. His EF is now 22% up from 15%. While he may be a candidate for heart transplant in the future, for right now he can do what he feels like doing on medicine. Of course, the diabetes is a concern and of course who knows what the future holds but for now it was such wonderful news. Thanks for listening, Leigh.
Jon's note: It's the trend that counts and his trend is certainly headed in the right direction! Congratulations

Scott Brown's December 6 reply to Jessica Rowland's December 5, 2002 - Hi Jessica, Your question about a Christmas gift is a tough question. First, one of many major ways woman might get CHF is through childbirth. This is a fact which cannot be disputed. The problem is more with your partner's feeling of guilt for her mother's condition. Blaming herself for her condition is the same as blaming my dad for passing along the defective genes to me. It is not a useful exercise at all.
     Christmas is a sad time for a lot of people. We remember our loved ones sharing special Christmas celebrations with us. When the loved ones leave us, it is very sad. Maybe your girlfriend could use a good book on grieving, one that discusses feeling guilty or blamed. While her mom was alive, I'm sure she would not have done things any other way! Is there anyone that could suggest a book to fit the bill?
     Don't blame your girlfriend for still being upset. It is pretty close to the death of her mom still! Thanks, Scott B.

Kevin K, December 6, 2002 - Hello and thanks to Jon and everyone who participates in this site. My mother has CHF from her chemotherapy (adriamycin) for breast cancer and is in week 2 of her treatment. She has a 20% ejection fraction. She is on enalaparil, Lasix, and Coreg but so far has only gotten worse. She can't sleep for more then 20 minutes at a time before gasping for air or the pain in lower back waking her up. From research on the Internet I think it is edema in her midsection. How long has it taken for others to get any relief in symptoms? Thank you, Kevin K.

Jon's December 6 reply to Kevin K's December 6, 2002 - Hi Kevin, Once you're diagnosed, it usually only takes 24 hours to get relief from edema. That's because they shoot IV Bumex into you and it drains you so fast you don't know what hit you. If she is still gasping for air from edema, she may need a change in treatment. Then again, if she is lying pretty flat when trying to sleep, she'll have trouble. See for more on that. Jon.

Myrtle C's December 9 reply to Jessica's December 5, 2002 - Hi Jessica, Your partner is so very young at 18. She seems to have been a caregiver since she was only 10. It must seem to her that she should have been able to keep her mother alive. What a tough life she must have had, believing she was the reason for her mother's heart failure and ultimately her death.
     For now she needs time to grieve and probably needs some counseling. If there is a hospice organization near her, check and see if they don't provide counseling. To me that would be the best gift. I pray for her grief and how difficult this holiday season will be for her. I pray you will be able to listen and not try to solve her problem. Only she can do that. May God help you both in this, in His Son's love and care, Myrtle.

Kelly S' December 9 reply to Jon's December 6, 2002 - Hi, I hadn't really thought of the pillow idea before and this information was very helpful. I learned something new today. Thanks again Jon, for your wonderful site.

Kelly S' December 9 reply to Jessica's December 5, 2002 - Hi, Scott's suggestion of a book triggered my memory of the book, "On Death and Dying" by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross. I read this while in college. It may help your friend. My prayers go out to both of you.

Jacqueline Z, December 9, 2002 - Hi, My 36 year old daughter has CHF with an EF of 10 to 12%. She had an ICD implanted on November 1. She is a recovering addict. The drug that did the most damage to her was ephedrine. I would appreciate any information on who to contact about getting this drug: diet pill, speed, whatever you want to call it, off the market. I know there has been a lot of news about it lately but as far as I know, it can be bought in most convenience stores. My daughter is doing pretty well, all things considered. Now we're waiting for an evaluation appointment to seek the possibility of getting her on a transplant list.

Jon's December 9 reply to Jacqueline Z's December 9, 2002 - Hi Jacqueline, I am very sorry to hear about your daughter's health problems. The same drug was a virtual life saver for my wife during an earlier illness. Her cardiologist gave it to her and it prevented her from losing her job and her health. Most importantly, it kept her in control of her life when she was rapidly losing that control.
     Most drugs can do great harm, but many can also do great good if used wisely. I understand your sentiment but I think you'll find that, like many drugs that can harm people, this is a drug some people require to maintain a good quality of life. Please don't punish others because of your daughter's experience. Jon.

Laura, December 9, 2002 - Hello Jon and others, First, God bless you Jon for this wonderful service you provide. It is greatly appreciated. I have been reading but not posting for several months now.
     My husband is only 50 years old with an EF of 14%, diagnosed in September. At that time he was evaluated for a heart transplant but because his Vo2max test showed over 20, he was not listed. He is rated as class 3. He is being followed by a cardiologist who doesn't believe in supplements. He had been on Lipitor for several years and through my research I learned of CoQ10 and had him tested. It was 0.4. He is now taking 200mg a day of CoQ10 and after much shouting, I convinced the doctor to discontinue the Lipitor, and his total cholesterol is down to 120.
     He will hopefully be switching cardiologists soon but in the interim, how do I convince his current doctor of the merits of CoQ10? He is really gung-ho on double-blind placebo-controlled studies so if you know of any you would recommend, I would appreciate it. My concern is not so much for my husband since I have been doing my homework and he will be changing doctors. My concern is more for his other patients, since he is director of a heart transplant program and I have wondered if CoQ10 could help some of the other patients there. He thinks I'm a lunatic at this point so I don't know if he will listen to anything I say but your input would be appreciated.
     Also, what are good questions to ask prospective cardiologists? Two things that are very important to us is that they be open-minded and take input from us on things we have seen published and that they are aware of the importance of nutrition and supplements along with traditional meds. I don't want to get stuck with another narrow-minded doctor. Thanks for any help, Laura.

Jon's December 9 reply to Laura's December 9, 2002 - Hi Laura, The links toother pages, on top of studies on the page itself, at are all I can offer, but that's quite a bit. However, you cannot convince a doctor of anything he has already decided and set in concrete in his own mind. You're wasting your time.
     You can find some questions to ask prospective cardiologists at the CHF FAQ, specifically at Jon.

Jon, December 10, 2002 - Hi everyone, to anyone on Medicare who has angina that does not respond to standard treatment, HCFA has now reversed their 1997 decision and will now cover TMLR for you. See Jon.

Kelly S' December 10 reply to Jacqueline Z's December 9, 2002 - Hi, I agree that this drug can be very dangerous and young people don't seem to know this. I know my husband used this before we met and the drug is readily available for over the counter sales. I hope your daughter improves and that she's able to get some enjoyment out of life.

Kelly S' December 11 reply to Jacqueline Z's December 9, 2002 - Hi, Kelly is right that this drug is in OTC meds. Even worse, it is in many herbal meds. These are catagorized as food and young athletes take these to "keep going" longer. They give a "burst of false energy." The problems can begin at that level. Nice people sell these without being aware of the dangers. I truly believe only physicians should be able to write scripts for them.

Jon's December 11 reply to Myrtle C's December 11, 2002 - Hi, I simply disagree and that's cool. However, I am surprised at your implication that a "nice" person would never intentionally sell any non-prescription product that contains ephedrine. Is it possible that they just expect people to know what they are buying? <g>
     I think that people - even young people - can and should read labels. I refuse to consider young people stupid. They know that if drinking or eating a product gives them a burst of energy that there is a physical reason why it does so. They know that such a gift of energy is not a gift at all but an effect caused by what they ingested. Young people will often make poor choices but while they are under age 19, they have parents to guide them and teach them how to make better choices. I taught my daughter this and I am sure you all did too. What they do as adults is their choice and no one forces it on them.
     Beyond a certain point, we should not restrict everyone's access to something to protect some people who are of legal age and sound mind and should know better if it's not right for them. Now, I'm no libertarian. This is just a disagreement on where that point should be drawn beyond which we should not go, in limiting people's choice of over the counter products.
     Having dealt with many doctors, many personal injuries (running a moulder in a lumber mill is quite dangerous), and many "patients" from many areas, I don't trust doctors to make my choices for me. They tend to do so with quite a bit of disregard for my desires for my life. I have been denied meds I know would help me from my own past experience just because a doctor poo-poo's my opinions; yet it's my life he is refusing to improve, not his. Make a drug prescription-only and you place more of your own life choices exclusively in a doctor's hands. Think about your own experiences with doctors across a lifetime. Is this wise?
     My take is that there are tons of potentially dangerous - even deadly - over the counter products available right now, including aspirin and Tylenol, both of which can quickly kill some people. I take some of them myself from time to time (in reasonable doses) because they help me feel better. I think I should be able to do so without being forced to pay a doctor and being forced to trust a doctor to do what I believe is right for me. Are you absolutely certain it is correct for you to take that right away from me to protect those who refuse to protect themselves?
     It's a tough question and almost everyone will draw the line in a slightly different place but I wanted to toss my full 2¢ worth in; I love a good discussion! I hope I don't offend anyone and feel free to blast me - nicely. ;-)
     By the way, did you see where the federal government is about to make bringing at least 10 (legal) prescription drugs into the USA from abroad illegal? Yep. Pretty soon, those who want to save money on their meds this way will no longer be able to do so. The government has decided we can't make that decision for ourselves. Two of the drugs already on the list are meant for heart and pulmonary hypertension patients: bosentan and dofetilide. You know that this list of meds we must buy in this country will soon grow. Less choices,... Jon.

Carole K, December 11, 2002 - Hi, This week has been very difficult. Last Wednesday, mother choked on a cup of coffee and it put her totally in bed for 4 days. She was so weak that all she could do was sleep. The hospice nurse said that she was losing her ability to swallow and they changed her diet to pureed foods. She eats very little now and I don't know whether it is because she doen't want food period or if she doesn't like it pureed.
     Has anyone else run into this problem? I am beginning to panic, wondering if I am making the right decisions. Carole K.

Jon, December 13, 2002 - Hey Guys, I bark but I don't jump out of your monitor and bite! <g> I didn't mean to chase anybody off! Jon.

Lorraine, December 14, 2002 - Hi, Just wondering if anyone can give me info on taking Paxil with CHF. My husband's doc said he could take 10mg per day if he needs it for depression. He has never had to take anything but I think he is becoming depressed. He is class 4 and gets weaker all the time. Any input will be appreciated.

Jon's December 14 reply to Lorraine's December 14, 2002 - Hi Lorraine, An MD is not qualified to diagnose depression. Your husband should see a psychiatrist because of his complex health problems - not a psychologist - and find out one thing: Is he any more depressed than he ought to be in his situation. That's my take. I've been in those shoes when off work for almost a year with a serious injury that refused to heal properly. The shrink said I was depressed but only as much as he considered normal and not cause for treatment. Just don't let an MD be the last word on this. A clergy appointment might not be a bad idea either, for that matter. Jon.

Donna's December 14 reply to Jon's December 13, 2002 - Hi, I think everyone is just tremendously busy right now! I have convinced my husband to get another opinion and he (grudgingly) went to the doctor last week so she could refer us to a different group of cardiologists.
     He is also being reviewed for disability and I was amazed when I got the doctor and hospital reports for the last year. I found that at times his EF has been as low as 20% and other times as high as 40%. I also learned that he is a class 3 heart patient and along with his cardiomyopathy he has some valve regurgitation from 2 valves. The list was so long that I can only remember bits and pieces of it, but it makes me understand just why he has been so sick.
     One thing was curious, though. In one place they said he had irreversible ischemic heart disease and in another place they said he had reversible ischemia. Those sound like contradictory terms to me. Are they? Thanks for everything, Jon.

Jon's December 14 reply to Donna's December 14, 2002 - Hi Donna, I can't say if this is the case with your husband, but it is very common for people with CAD to have areas of their heart irreversibly damaged from ischemia and other areas that "hibernate" - the reversible ischemia areas. Restoring blood flow to those areas by angiplasty, bypass, or vasodilators that expand arteries causes those areas to come "alive" again. Jon.

Lorraine's December 14 reply to Jon's December 14, 2002 - Hi Jon, Thanks for the reply. I don't think I explained the situation very well. His cardiologist did not suggest anything for depression. I just asked him about it because a friend's father-in-law had been put on Paxil and she thought it helped. I don't think my husband is any more depressed at this time than anyone would be in his condition. He is 75 and has been through so much. He realizes his condition has grown much worse in the past 6 months. He had another echo about 10 days ago and it was much worse. His EF had only gone from 30 to 26 but the doctor said other things were worse, like valves. He will continue his IV therapy (Primacor).
     He is having more problems keeping fluid down. He is on lots of meds including 240mg Lasix per day. He will not take the Paxil or anything unless we feel like he really needs it. We have been married 55 years and I know him pretty well. We do have a very good pastor who is very supportive and a great church family. We couldn't make it without them. I'm sorry this is so long but just wanted to set the record straight. Lorraine.

Jon's December 14 reply to Lorraine's December 14, 2002 - Hi Lorraine, That's a constant problem online: making suggestions with only minimal information. There is no way around it that I have found so we all just do the best we can. ;-) Jon.

Lorraine's December 16 reply to Jon's December 14, 2002 - Hi and thanks Jon, You are doing a great job. May God bless you and your family with a good Christmas. This will be our first Christmas not going out of town but we have family coming this year, starting today, so I probably won't get a chance to post again before Christmas. I hope everyone out there has a good one. Lorraine.

Scott Brown, December 17, 2002 - Hi All, I have been absent for a few days. I wanted to thank everyone for their prayers for my dad, Raymond Brown. It seemed impossible but he made it out of intensive care, despite eColi bacteria infection in the blood, double pneumonia, a lung fungus, and discitis. His kidneys started working again and his bowel started working completely about a week later. He was very weak but able to sit up and talk with us, as well as you could expect after 2 weeks on a ventilator. My dad's vitals all returned back to normal for a week and he was released into a regular room.
     After one day in the room, something happened. We still do not know what. He had a mucas blockage which was causing difficulty with breathing. The nurses suctioned the blockage and left him to sleep. When they returned, he had passed away.
     My dad passed away on December 12th at 12:05 AM. He put up a great fight and it was ironic that his transplanted heart worked perfectly for him right up until the time of his passing. Our family is very proud of my dad. I know he went forward with the transplant because he wanted to set a good example for me, since I also have advanced CHF.
     I also wanted to take the time to thank my mother. She has stood by my dad for 15 years of CHF-related illness including lengthy hospital stays (at least 1 1/2 of the last 2 years). She would go in to see my dad every day for at least 3 or 4 hours. I'm sure it made him last this long. As a family support member, keep in mind the important role you play in keeping your loved ones alive and positive! It's so very important.
     We ran our death notice in 3 different papers with the following trailor: "Don't take your organs to heaven, God knows we need them here." This is borrowed from Toronto General Hospital. Take care, Scott Brown, Kitchener, Ontario.

Marion, December 17, 2002 - Hi, Thanks to everyone who replied to my last posting and many thanks to Jon. My mom-in-law has now been classified as end-stage after a week of trying to determine what was causing the delirium, lack of strength, and fatigue. She experienced a precipitous decline, which I believe threw everyone off.
     Her symptoms and general appearance (she's wasting away) look more like cancer patients I have known than what we expected. She's entering rehab today to see if she can relearn to walk and take care of herself somewhat.
     I'm writing to see if this resonates with any other families out there, Can you share what you have experienced? We'd like to help her live in this new place or at least help her die with some grace and dignity. The doctors we are dealing with do not seem to be very good at this part of the process. Any resources that anyone can recommend would be greatly appreciated. Marion.

Mike W's December 18 reply to Scott Brown's December 17, 2002 - Hi Scott, I'm truly sorry to hear of the loss of your courageous father. It sounds like your dad was like mine. My dad, though suffering horribly with cancer for almost a year, died a "good death" meaning that despite the horror and pain, he never stopped caring about those around him and even in his death was giving to others.
     His example of courage and compassion has been one of the major reasons I can cope with my CHF as well as I do and one of the largest gifts I've ever received. We understandably forget that even in the inevitability of death there can be things gained as well as lost. I'm sorry if I sound preachy, but your loss and post has great resonance for me.
     I know you will have a somber holiday but I'm sure thoughts of your dad (and mom) will buoy you. I wish you peace, Mike Wafkowski.

Joyce's December 18 reply to Marion's December 17, 2002 - Hi Marion, Hospice usually does a wonderful job helping people and their family deal with the end of life experience. I have a friend in the nursing home who doesn't want any more treatment and hospice has helped her and her family. She is kept very comfortable and her family has been taught how to accept this. I thought hospice was only for cancer but it is for any terminal illness. I wish you all well and God bless, Joyce.

Jon, December 18, 2002 - Hi everyone, I will be changing operating systems, among other things, on my computer shortly. Combined with the holiday season, I will be offline - and so will this heart forum - for no more than one week, beginning Thursday, December 19. Have a merry Christmas! Jon.

Deb F, December 27, 2002 - Hi, What a difficult time my mom has had. She moved in to the nursing home today after spending almost 5 weeks in the hospital. On November 24 she entered the local hospital for another bout of congestion, and after about a week she improved but then developed internal bleeding. On day 8 she was transported to Abbott - our heart hospital - an hour and a half away. They were able to cauterize the bleeding in her intestines only to have her go right back into heart failure again.
     Her blood pressure has been in the low 70s and 80s, which has complicated matters. A week ago she had a Swan-Gantz cath put in and was given several strong IV drugs, including dubutamine and Natracor. There was no improvement at all after a week of trying everything. Then a heart transplant was discussed, but she was not a candidate because of too much fluid, pulmonary pressures, and her heart's too weak. So Monday at the family conference we were told there was nothing more that could be done.
     It's a tough time and if anyone would be willing to share what may happen or what to expect next, I would appreciate it. The doctor said it will be weeks, not months. She doesn't eat, (only a little jello or a bite of banana) or walk or get out of bed. She's nauseous and starting to become mixed up in her thinking. The doctor said she will become more tired and sleep more. We are spending every day with her and making these last days memorable as can be. It's sad to watch her fade away; heartbreaking, she's only 65.
     Any advice or info would be appreciated. Thanks, Deb.

Liz D, December 27, 2002 - Hi, Does anyone have a recommendation for an attorney to assist with Social Security Disability? We live in the Phoenix area and my brother has congestive heart failure. He has only 10% use of his heart and a defibrillator) and at this time is not being accepted onto the transplant list.

Susan B's December 28 reply to Liz D's December 27, 2002 - Dear Liz, I am sorry to hear about your brother. I don't have the name of an attorney, but I suggest that you call the bar association in Phoenix for a referral. In most large cities there is a referral service for attorneys. I suggest that you get an attorney that (1) practices mostly (75% or higher) disability law, (2) that your brother likes, (3) that your brother likes the attorneys' staff. Please don't hire someone if your brother does not like the staff and the attorney. Good luck, Susan B.

Lois B's December 29 reply to Deb F's December 27, 2002 - Dear Deb F, I am sorry about your mother. Just be glad the dobutamine didn't work. My 67 year old husband is in his "last days" after being on dobutamine since February. No one seems to be able to tell the caregiver what to expect. My husband, because of the dobutamine, cannot go to a good nursing home in our area because they don't take dobutamine patients. We have had him at home in a hospital bed with an excellent visiting nurse.
     I am tired. He sleeps much of the time but I am up most nights 3 or 4 times to give him morphine or change his position because he has pain in all parts now. He has chosen to remove the dobutamine and defibrillator this Friday. We are very thankful we have had our Lord to guide and sustain us. The prayers and support of our family and friends give us strength. The medical community needs to address "end-stage" information for caregivers. All I can tell you is enjoy an hour at a time with His help, Lois B.

Carole K's December 31 reply to Lois B's December 29, 2002 - Dear Lois, I am sorry about your husband. I hope his passing will be a gentle one. I am in a similar situation with my mother.
     I just have one question. I know know you are under a stain so maybe Jon can answer for you. Why won't a nursing home take a patient on dobutamine? Did hospice refuse you as well? God be with you and give you strength to endure, Carole.
Jon's note: I don't know

All information on this site is opinion only. All concepts, explanations, trials, and studies have been re-written in plain English and may contain errors. I am not a doctor. Use the reference information at the end of each article to search MedLine for more complete and accurate information. All original copyrights apply. No information on this page should be used by any person to affect their medical, legal, educational, social, or psychological treatment in any way. I am not a doctor. This web site and all its pages, graphics, and content copyright © 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 Jon C.

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